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  1. MusicBrainz Server
  2. MBS-10198

Guess case should not change "acapella" (and variants) to "a cappella"

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    • Resolution: Unresolved
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      Acapella is a valid English spelling which is more common than the correct Italian phrase on hip hop and dance records. The category for isolated vocal tracks on Beatport is spelled "Acapellas", and there are more hits of "acapella" (28,383) than "a cappella" (9,976) on Discogs.

          [MBS-10198] Guess case should not change "acapella" (and variants) to "a cappella"

          Lotheric added a comment -

          à capella (spelling reform*) => right now gets changed to "À capella" using French guess case. imho it should stay in lowercase

          a capella (traditional spelling) => right now gets changed to "a cappella" using French guess case

          a cappella (traditionnal spelling) => stays as is using the French guess case

          are acceptable variants in french

           

          • spelling reform is not mandatory and both the traditionnal & new spelling are accepted.

           

          https://usito.usherbrooke.ca/définitions/a_cappella_ou_a_capella

          http://bdl.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/bdl/gabarit_bdl.asp?t1=1&id=3168

          http://bdl.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/bdl/gabarit_bdl.asp?t1=1&id=4733

           

          Lotheric added a comment - à capella (spelling reform*) => right now gets changed to "À capella" using French guess case. imho it should stay in lowercase a capella (traditional spelling) => right now gets changed to "a cappella" using French guess case a cappella (traditionnal spelling) => stays as is using the French guess case are acceptable variants in french   spelling reform is not mandatory and both the traditionnal & new spelling are accepted.   https://usito.usherbrooke.ca/d éfinitions/a_cappella_ou_a_capella http://bdl.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/bdl/gabarit_bdl.asp?t1=1&id=3168 http://bdl.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/bdl/gabarit_bdl.asp?t1=1&id=4733  

          No, this wasn't the same - this was not changed for standardization purposes, but for error correction (we currently consider "acapella" effectively a typo). Which is why it didn't get dropped when standardization did. I agree it makes sense to at least clarify this if we don't change it though - but putting it as a guideline would turn what currently is a suggested (by guess case) error correction that users can choose to ignore into a guideline-mandated change. Not sure that's what you'd prefer  

          Nicolás Tamargo added a comment - No, this wasn't the same - this was not changed for standardization purposes, but for error correction (we currently consider "acapella" effectively a typo). Which is why it didn't get dropped when standardization did. I agree it makes sense to at least clarify this if we don't change it though - but putting it as a guideline would turn what currently is a suggested (by guess case) error correction that users can choose to ignore into a guideline-mandated change. Not sure that's what you'd prefer  

          finalsummer added a comment -

          I assume this is some legacy thing from when it did things like 'Pt.' > 'Part'? I did look through the documentation thoroughly and couldn't find anything but it might possible exists in some older revision of a page? A common spelling being changed to another common spelling (arguably, this is less common as printed ETI, even) without any documentation saying to change it is a bug.

          The English style guidelines probably needs to cover more stuff like capitalized acronyms in general, but that's another issue.

          finalsummer added a comment - I assume this is some legacy thing from when it did things like 'Pt.' > 'Part'? I did look through the documentation thoroughly and couldn't find anything but it might possible exists in some older revision of a page? A common spelling being changed to another common spelling (arguably, this is less common as printed ETI, even) without any documentation saying to change it is a bug. The English style guidelines probably needs to cover more stuff like capitalized acronyms in general, but that's another issue.

          The same is done with a.k.a. being lowercased, and Djs being turned into DJs, for example. That said, since this is maybe a larger change, it could be added to the special cases under https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Language/English I guess?

          Nicolás Tamargo added a comment - The same is done with a.k.a. being lowercased, and Djs being turned into DJs, for example. That said, since this is maybe a larger change, it could be added to the special cases under https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Language/English  I guess?

          finalsummer added a comment -

          Any update on this? It seems that guess case still produces this undocumented behavior.

          finalsummer added a comment - Any update on this? It seems that guess case still produces this undocumented behavior.

          finalsummer added a comment -

          Guess case is not doing its job properly as long as the behavior is completely undocumented. There should either be documentation in the form of a guideline or the function should be changed, otherwise it is incredible confusing.

          finalsummer added a comment - Guess case is not doing its job properly as long as the behavior is completely undocumented. There should either be documentation in the form of a guideline or the function should be changed, otherwise it is incredible confusing.

          chaban added a comment -

          There was a discussion:
          Handling sleeve misspellings

          chaban added a comment - There was a discussion: Handling sleeve misspellings

          dr saunders added a comment -

          I personally disagree with this and believe guess case works as it should.

          There should be an option to vote against an issue in the tracker

          dr saunders added a comment - I personally disagree with this and believe guess case works as it should. There should be an option to vote against an issue in the tracker

          finalsummer added a comment -

          Dictionaries aren't a reliable source for DJ jargon, very basic terms like "back cueing" and "beatmatching" aren't in the dictionary either. Unless there it's following a specific guideline, I don't think guess case should change the word, hence I don't think making a forum thread is necessary.

          finalsummer added a comment - Dictionaries aren't a reliable source for DJ jargon, very basic terms like "back cueing" and "beatmatching" aren't in the dictionary either. Unless there it's following a specific guideline, I don't think guess case should change the word, hence I don't think making a forum thread is necessary.

          On one hand, it's not really true that it's a valid English spelling (it's not in any proper dictionary I can see, unless we're counting Urban Dictionary as a serious source). On the other hand, it is a very common usage, and I guess you could say in hip hop the misspelling has been used so much that it is "the right word" by now. finalsummer: want to start a discussion in the forum?

          Nicolás Tamargo added a comment - On one hand, it's not really true that it's a valid English spelling (it's not in any proper dictionary I can see, unless we're counting Urban Dictionary as a serious source). On the other hand, it is a very common usage, and I guess you could say in hip hop the misspelling has been used so much that it is "the right word" by now. finalsummer : want to start a discussion in the forum?

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