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  1. MusicBrainz Style
  2. STYLE-1043

Dutch sorting with 'tussenvoegsels' (articles): create clearer guidelines/choice.

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    Details

    • Type: Improvement
    • Status: Open
    • Priority: Normal
    • Resolution: Unresolved
    • Affects Version/s: None
    • Fix Version/s: None
    • Component/s: Guidelines
    • Labels:
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      Description

      I will describe the issue in English, but mostly it applies to the Dutch language style guidelines.

      Dutch names often have an article/tussenvoegsel. These are well included, but sorting rules for the article differ a bit on experience and taste.

      In scientific writing (APA rules) the article will be fully included in the familyname. Eg van Helden, Armand.
      See eg https://www.scribbr.nl/apa-stijl/literatuurlijst-alfabetiseren-volgens-de-apa-regels/

      In some formal advice by the official Taalunie, a difference between Flemish dialect and Dutch exist. See https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfabetische_volgorde
      and
      https://taaladvies.net/taal/advies/vraag/145/alfabetische_rangschikking_van_namen/
      In short, in the Flemish region the tussenvoegsel becomes part of the familyname (and is sometimes even connected by removing the [space]). In NL-nl (Netherlands part) the article is placed behind the familyname. This is currently applied to Armand van Helden via a pretty strict annotation:
      https://musicbrainz.org/artist/b09b5127-c62e-4bb2-b790-1e4aa18749ed

      For English documentation on sorting, see:
      https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Style/Artist/Sort_Name

      In there, the article for persons should be fully written before the family name. However, no very clear mention is given for Dutch tussenvoegsel.
      If we follow the shorts at familyname, the example in

      Guideline 1c. Family name begins with abbreviation
      Rebecca St. James has sort name "Saint James, Rebecca"
      St. Lunatics has sort name "Saint Lunatics"

      applies.

      Dutch guidelines do not mention anything
      https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Style/Language/Dutch

      My personal preference and proposal is based on the use in science and related to the guideline 1c. But more importantly: there needs to be a clear(er) paragraph on this in the Dutch stylelines.

      1. Armand van Helden sorts to
      Van Helden, Armand
      2. De Kast (group) sorts to
      Kast, De
      3. Ferenc E. van der Sluijs (artist) https://musicbrainz.org/artist/095667d4-ed98-48f3-b394-8bb5c7844e54 sorts to
      van der Sluijs, Ference E.

      See a mix of current use (example)
      https://musicbrainz.org/search?query=van+der&type=artist&method=indexed

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            • Assignee:
              reosarevok Nicolás Tamargo
              Reporter:
              michelv Michel Vorenhout
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